India Against Corruption: December 2012

Wednesday 26 December 2012

Re: [IAC] [HJ+IAC] PRESS RELEASE. IAC++ list shut by Indian Govt hackers.

Dear Mr. Mandar Jog

This is the 3rd time this has happened.

It is orchestrated by Team-Arvind because we recently circulated some messages about Aam Aadmi Party workers beating a cop to death. We also circulated another message
about Kiran Bedi and us terminating her from IAC primary membership at her request.

The last time this happened on 26.Oct.2012 we tracked it down to a flood of spam emails emanating from CSD a NGO (a Govt financed NGO) where AAP core member Yogendra Yadav is faculty. CSD also runs the sarai.net mailing lists

All details are with the riseup.net techs. But as its X'mas they are slow in getting back to us.

We suspect that this time Team-Arvind generated a flood of fake list "abuse" messages by spoofing our subscribers.

We have basic alternate arrangements in place. We've asked riseup to restore the list. We have also started switching IAC members to our sympathetic lists like "HumJanenge" and "Hum". A separate low traffic mailing list of media [IAC-media] is also operational.

Ajay Dixit
IAC National Cyber-media Coordinator.

On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 6:01 AM, Mandar <mandarjog@gmail.com> wrote:

Can you provide some details about this.

Who did it?
How do we know they did it?

Who investigated the hack / cyber attack?
What are links between this group and the government?

What legal recourse do we have?

Regards,
Mandar U Jog

[IAC] PRESS RELEASE. IAC++ list shut by Indian Govt hackers.

URGENT PRESS RELEASE
26-Dec-2012

Dear Friends,

India Against Corruption regrets to announce that hackers affiliated to the Government of India were able to disable and shut down the IAC's primary mailing list with over 27,000 registered subscribers/members on 25.Dec.2012 at about 9 pm IST.

The IAC treats this as an act of aggression against the people's movement, which is now no longer controlled by a clutch of foreign financed Government sponsored collaborators, but is independent, outspoken and a credible counter-force.

The IAC resolves to restore the mailing list as soon as possible. Until then IAC shall be utilising the mailing list of "Humjanenge" RTI group to carry on communications. Messages for IAC can be posted to "humjanenge@lists.riseup.net" as an interim measure.

Ajay Dixit
National Cyber-media Coordinator
India Against Corruption

[IAC] [HJ-RU] IAC++ list again taken down by Govt hackers

Dear members of Humjanenge.

All members of this list also became subscribers of the [IAC++] mailing list when I became National Convenor of India Against Corruption.

It seems that the Govt and their pet poodles (like Kiran Bedi) are severely pissed off at us, and have again got Govt hackers to shut down the IAC++ mailing list.

Anyway, we had a good run this time of all of 2 months.

Till then this list will be substituting for [IAC++] like the last time it happened in October

As Arnie (Shwarznegger said)
"We''ll be back"

Sarbajit

National Convenor,
India Against Corruption.

Saturday 15 December 2012

Re: [IAC] धारणाएं

Greetings GhulamK.

A nice poem. You may please attend our Saturday 06PM public meetings at Nanavati School, Vileparle West and read it out.

Please do not use the signature with IAC and AAP together. IAC has been given up by all those who are fully into AAP now :)

It is best not to add to the ongoing controversies.

Best wishes always.

For AAP related activities and messages please do not use this particular email id.

Please use: AAP.Mumbai.Vora@gmail.com

2012/12/12 Ghulam kundanam <ghulam.kundanam@gmail.com>

धारणाएं
...........

लोकतंत्र से मिटायें ये कलंक
की सियासत में जाते सत्ता के लोभी,
...

सियासत में भारी मुनाफा के कारण
बनी है ये पूरी व्यवस्था ही रोगी.

धनबल बाहुबल छोड़े जम्हूरियत
आम आदमी की तब संसद होगी.

देश, समाज और मानवता की सेवा
का व्रत लेकर ही पहुंचें अब योगी.

Jai Janta.....Jai Janlokpal.....
Jai IAC…Jai AAP….
ॐ . ੴ . اللّٰه . † …….
Om.Onkar. Allâh.God…..
Jai Hind! Jai Jagat (Universe)!

-Ghulam Kundanam,
Volunteer, IAC & AAP..
Mobile No- 9931018391.

Facebook link :-
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=515761788449188&set=a.467637166594984.107690.230998210258882&type=1&ref=nf

List: "indiaagainstcorruption@lists.riseup.net"
Unsubscribe: "indiaagainstcorruption-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net"

--
Please visit my blog: http://ThinkUnderstandAcceptAdapt.blogspot.com
I will work for SELF-GOVERNANCE so that India has SWARAJ ... Will you?

Message and Attachments checked free of virus and worms with Quick Heal Internet Security 2012 Auto Update.

PLEASE USE THIS EMAIL ID FOR PRIVATE MESSAGES ONLY ... OTHER MAIL MAY BE POSTED TO: jnm.movement@gmail.com OR iac.mumbai.vora@gmail.com

Wednesday 12 December 2012

[IAC] धारणाएं

धारणाएं
...........

लोकतंत्र से मिटायें ये कलंक
की सियासत में जाते सत्ता के लोभी,
...

सियासत में भारी मुनाफा के कारण
बनी है ये पूरी व्यवस्था ही रोगी.

धनबल बाहुबल छोड़े जम्हूरियत
आम आदमी की तब संसद होगी.

देश, समाज और मानवता की सेवा
का व्रत लेकर ही पहुंचें अब योगी.

Jai Janta.....Jai Janlokpal.....
Jai IAC…Jai AAP….
ॐ . ੴ . اللّٰه . † …….
Om.Onkar. Allâh.God…..
Jai Hind! Jai Jagat (Universe)!

-Ghulam Kundanam,
Volunteer, IAC & AAP..
Mobile No- 9931018391.

Facebook link :-
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=515761788449188&set=a.467637166594984.107690.230998210258882&type=1&ref=nf

Monday 10 December 2012

[IAC++] Small team of 3 or 4 volunteers needed for testing IAC Project No. 1

IAC Members are impatient for action.

IAC needs a few random people from this mailing list to assist in testing some simple software/systems we are setting up using RISEUP platform to help members in fighting corruption. (Duration of this experiment/Project is 30 days)

REQUIREMENTS

1) Must be able to use email and Internet easily. Fluent knowledge of English is desirable. (The next trials will be in Hindi)

2) Must be able to read 2 or 3 government documents and be able to draft letters of complaint based on these documents independently.

3) Must be prepared to send emails in his/her own name/correct address and receive letters in reply.

4) Must be prepared to file a routine complaint to Government if the replies received are not satisfactory.

5) Must not disclose/discuss his/her actions while the project/experiment is in progress..

TO APPLY:

1) Create a new account at this link: (choose a random user name)
https://we.riseup.net/account/signup

2) "Join" this IAC Committee (you must Login with your new account - top right hand corner)
https://we.riseup.net/india_against_corruption+p1220120001

3) "WAIT" for your application to be approved.

Sarbajit

Re: [IAC] [IAC++] [HumJanenge] Plan to Prevent Corruption & other Democratic Evils

Dear Mr Bojji

You are a valued member for our list because you are taking the trouble of articulating problems you are experiencing. It is this attitude of protest which must be inculcated in our members. I would request you to kindly stay on in the list till we resolve your problem.

When anyone posts a message to this IAC++ list, he will FIRST get an automatic message from SYMPA saying that his message is awaiting approval from a moderator.

If the message is approved, a copy is also being sent to other sympa lists called "humjanenge" or "indiaagainstcorruption".

The "rejection" message you are getting is almost certainly from "humjanenge" or "indiaagainstcorruption" because you are not a member of those lists.

Please IGNORE any rejection message from humjanenge and instead treat it as CONFIRMATION that your message has been approved to IAC++ list.

The reason our list emails are being forwarded to other lists is that these are backups in case this list is attacked by Government hackers as happened in October this year.

This is purely an automated process, and no personal humiliation is intended to you or the contents of your emails.

With apologies

Sarbajit

On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 6:24 PM, Rajaram Bojji <rajaram.bojji@gmail.com> wrote:

I request that In should not be in the list receiving emails. When I reply I get response I am not auhorised and routinely get rejected.

When I say govt cannot have right to secretly interpret public policy for private benefit, how is that so objectionable to be rejected by moderators?

Something is not right here.

I did not join this list. Why did u include and then, send bunches of email, then humiliate rejecting or sating I am not authorised to send replies etc... Some automated replies.

Please remove my email from your honoured group .

Thank you.
Rajaram Bojji FIE., FNAE
+91 9885700007

On Dec 10, 2012 4:47 PM, "Sarbajit Roy" <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Mr Bojji

Everyone on this list can post/reply.

As a matter of fact your previous email had already been circulated to
this list as can be verified from.
https://lists.riseup.net/www/arc/iac/2012-12/msg00179.html

This list has over 13,000 members. If all of them exercised their
rights repeatedly or simultaneously this list would collapse. That is
why we have moderators here, to ensue that only "good" messages get
through to ensure that our subscribers are not over-burdened.

If your message is a) well reasoned b) on topic c) conforms to the
list rules and normal netiquette d) and contains at least 100 words it
should get through.

This is not a Free-for-all list. It is a Moderated (and actually very
heavily moderated) list. You have to come up to IAC's standards - IAC
shall not come down to yours. As a Fellow of the Institution, I'm sure
you will concur that standards cannot be diluted.

Sarbajit

On 12/10/12, Rajaram Bojji <rajaram.bojji@gmail.com> wrote:
> If I am not authorised to reply please stop sending these mails to me.
>
> Rajaram Bojji FIE., FNAE
> +91 9885700007
> On Dec 10, 2012 1:57 PM, "pavan nair" <pavannair1@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I agree with Professor Rao. Here is one suggestion. Term limits. Say not
>> more than two tenures for the Rajya Sabha and three for the Lok Sabha. Of
>> course this is open to discussion and argument. This will ensure a
>> turnover
>> of politicians and more people getting a chance to participate. Similarly
>> all other official positions as chairman of bodies to be restricted to
>> two
>> tenures. Also fix retirement ages to say 75 years? Col Pavan Nair
>>

WWW : http://indiaagainstcorruption.net.in
Post: iac@lists.riseup.net
Quit: iac-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net
Help: http://help.riseup.net/lists/

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Re: [IAC++] [HumJanenge] Plan to Prevent Corruption & other Democratic Evils

On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 6:24 PM, Rajaram Bojji <rajaram.bojji@gmail.com> wrote:

I request that In should not be in the list receiving emails. When I reply I get response I am not auhorised and routinely get rejected.

When I say govt cannot have right to secretly interpret public policy for private benefit, how is that so objectionable to be rejected by moderators?

Something is not right here.

I did not join this list. Why did u include and then, send bunches of email, then humiliate rejecting or sating I am not authorised to send replies etc... Some automated replies.

Please remove my email from your honoured group .

Thank you.
Rajaram Bojji FIE., FNAE
+91 9885700007

On Dec 10, 2012 4:47 PM, "Sarbajit Roy" <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Mr Bojji

Everyone on this list can post/reply.

As a matter of fact your previous email had already been circulated to
this list as can be verified from.
https://lists.riseup.net/www/arc/iac/2012-12/msg00179.html

This list has over 13,000 members. If all of them exercised their
rights repeatedly or simultaneously this list would collapse. That is
why we have moderators here, to ensue that only "good" messages get
through to ensure that our subscribers are not over-burdened.

If your message is a) well reasoned b) on topic c) conforms to the
list rules and normal netiquette d) and contains at least 100 words it
should get through.

This is not a Free-for-all list. It is a Moderated (and actually very
heavily moderated) list. You have to come up to IAC's standards - IAC
shall not come down to yours. As a Fellow of the Institution, I'm sure
you will concur that standards cannot be diluted.

Sarbajit

On 12/10/12, Rajaram Bojji <rajaram.bojji@gmail.com> wrote:
> If I am not authorised to reply please stop sending these mails to me.
>
> Rajaram Bojji FIE., FNAE
> +91 9885700007
> On Dec 10, 2012 1:57 PM, "pavan nair" <pavannair1@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I agree with Professor Rao. Here is one suggestion. Term limits. Say not
>> more than two tenures for the Rajya Sabha and three for the Lok Sabha. Of
>> course this is open to discussion and argument. This will ensure a
>> turnover
>> of politicians and more people getting a chance to participate. Similarly
>> all other official positions as chairman of bodies to be restricted to
>> two
>> tenures. Also fix retirement ages to say 75 years? Col Pavan Nair
>>

WWW : http://indiaagainstcorruption.net.in
Post: iac@lists.riseup.net
Quit: iac-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net
Help: http://help.riseup.net/lists/

WWW : http://indiaagainstcorruption.net.in
Post: iac@lists.riseup.net
Quit: iac-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net
Help: http://help.riseup.net/lists/

Re: [IAC] [IAC++] [HumJanenge] Plan to Prevent Corruption & other Democratic Evils

Dear Nandhu and everyone else on this thread.

When we already know deep inside that this is all wishful thinking and fantasy, why do we continue with it ? The old IAC of Arvind Kejriwal, Bhushans Anna Hazare etc were running a business of feeding and nurturing such false hope, expectations and illusions.

The new IAC is honest - we respect your intelligence, and expects out-of-the-box thinking with action oriented trigger points and measurable goals to get the GOVERNMENT to eliminate corruption. .

The point we are repeatedly making is that it is NOT the job of citizens to do the Government's job. It is our duty as citizens to monitor them (Govt) and kick them when they start lagging behind. (The Govt makes it a regular practice to get the wrong people to do the wrong jobs).

Forget all the meaningless distracting crap about laws, legislatures, Parliaments, political parties, elections, voters, terms in office etc. FOCUS on making your Government work for YOU !

On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 5:51 PM, Nandhu MJS <nandhu.mjs@gmail.com> wrote:

I think the points raised by Prof PVS Rao have been completely missed. There are numerous good ideas on what can be done to improve the democratic process, and many of these have been aired on these columns. I am sure there are a lot more. The real problem is not on finding out what can be done but how any of these ideas can be initiated. Without disrupting the democratic process, none of these ideas can be initiated by anybody who is is not a party to the process, viz., members of the legislative bodies, be it at the state or national level. And these honourable members are not likely to take any of these suggestions and follow up on them seriously as all these measures go against the grain of their interests in wanting hold on to the powers vested in these positions and the opportunities that lie in the exercise of these powers

What we need to do is evolve the methodologies that would provide us the lever to at least get a toehold in getting our voices heard and acted upon. I do not have the magic wand to open this access. However, I am sure that an open discussion on these lines can throw up hundreds of apparently stupid and impractical ideas but among these there can be one brilliant idea that can indeed work to get the job done

We have to first get to where our thoughts and ideas can constructively work rather than just keep airing what needs to be done when we get there

Prof Rao had even mentioned he has a methodology for making it work, but probably feels the the present mood is not appropriate for him to reveal it now. May be we can create the conducive platform where these ideas can be discussed ?

Regards & best wishes and without offense to any who have participated in these discussions

Nandhu

Re: [IAC++] [HumJanenge] Plan to Prevent Corruption & other Democratic Evils

On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 5:51 PM, Nandhu MJS <nandhu.mjs@gmail.com> wrote:

I think the points raised by Prof PVS Rao have been completely missed. There are numerous good ideas on what can be done to improve the democratic process, and many of these have been aired on these columns. I am sure there are a lot more. The real problem is not on finding out what can be done but how any of these ideas can be initiated. Without disrupting the democratic process, none of these ideas can be initiated by anybody who is is not a party to the process, viz., members of the legislative bodies, be it at the state or national level. And these honourable members are not likely to take any of these suggestions and follow up on them seriously as all these measures go against the grain of their interests in wanting hold on to the powers vested in these positions and the opportunities that lie in the exercise of these powers

What we need to do is evolve the methodologies that would provide us the lever to at least get a toehold in getting our voices heard and acted upon. I do not have the magic wand to open this access. However, I am sure that an open discussion on these lines can throw up hundreds of apparently stupid and impractical ideas but among these there can be one brilliant idea that can indeed work to get the job done

We have to first get to where our thoughts and ideas can constructively work rather than just keep airing what needs to be done when we get there

Prof Rao had even mentioned he has a methodology for making it work, but probably feels the the present mood is not appropriate for him to reveal it now. May be we can create the conducive platform where these ideas can be discussed ?

Regards & best wishes and without offense to any who have participated in these discussions

Nandhu

Re: [IAC++] [HumJanenge] Plan to Prevent Corruption & other Democratic Evils

I request that In should not be in the list receiving emails. When I reply I get response I am not auhorised and routinely get rejected.

When I say govt cannot have right to secretly interpret public policy for private benefit, how is that so objectionable to be rejected by moderators?

Something is not right here.

I did not join this list. Why did u include and then, send bunches of email, then humiliate rejecting or sating I am not authorised to send replies etc... Some automated replies.

Please remove my email from your honoured group .

Thank you.
Rajaram Bojji FIE., FNAE
+91 9885700007

On Dec 10, 2012 4:47 PM, "Sarbajit Roy" <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Mr Bojji

Everyone on this list can post/reply.

As a matter of fact your previous email had already been circulated to
this list as can be verified from.
https://lists.riseup.net/www/arc/iac/2012-12/msg00179.html

This list has over 13,000 members. If all of them exercised their
rights repeatedly or simultaneously this list would collapse. That is
why we have moderators here, to ensue that only "good" messages get
through to ensure that our subscribers are not over-burdened.

If your message is a) well reasoned b) on topic c) conforms to the
list rules and normal netiquette d) and contains at least 100 words it
should get through.

This is not a Free-for-all list. It is a Moderated (and actually very
heavily moderated) list. You have to come up to IAC's standards - IAC
shall not come down to yours. As a Fellow of the Institution, I'm sure
you will concur that standards cannot be diluted.

Sarbajit

On 12/10/12, Rajaram Bojji <rajaram.bojji@gmail.com> wrote:
> If I am not authorised to reply please stop sending these mails to me.
>
> Rajaram Bojji FIE., FNAE
> +91 9885700007
> On Dec 10, 2012 1:57 PM, "pavan nair" <pavannair1@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I agree with Professor Rao. Here is one suggestion. Term limits. Say not
>> more than two tenures for the Rajya Sabha and three for the Lok Sabha. Of
>> course this is open to discussion and argument. This will ensure a
>> turnover
>> of politicians and more people getting a chance to participate. Similarly
>> all other official positions as chairman of bodies to be restricted to
>> two
>> tenures. Also fix retirement ages to say 75 years? Col Pavan Nair
>>

WWW : http://indiaagainstcorruption.net.in
Post: iac@lists.riseup.net
Quit: iac-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net
Help: http://help.riseup.net/lists/

Re: [IAC] [IAC++] [HumJanenge] Plan to Prevent Corruption & other Democratic Evils

Today we get an average of 100 emails per day to the list. Of these about max 15-20 will be allowed through. Since this is the initial phase of this list, I and the other list moderators also post about 6-7 emails a day (some days even more).

We have a bias for emails which are neither too short nor too long. We are also biased in favour of emails which address some common problem. Emails which SHOUT (ie. all caps etc) or are Abusive are immediately rejected - irrespecttive of content., Emails which are not properly trimmed are also deprecated.

The ideal mail will be about 2 to 5 short factual paras, making proper structured practical arguments / suggestions. or emails which systematically demolish somebody else's argument.

We would like members to develop ownership in their movement.

On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 5:05 PM, rb purohit <rbpurohit4productivity@gmail.com> wrote:

T

Re: [IAC++] [HumJanenge] Plan to Prevent Corruption & other Democratic Evils

On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 5:05 PM, rb purohit <rbpurohit4productivity@gmail.com> wrote:

T

Re: [IAC] [IAC++] VOICE OF HRARMY

The Hindustan Republican Association (HRA) is the group which Bhagat Singh and Chandrashekhar Azad etc were members of. It was founded by Sachindranath sanyal, Pandit Bismil, Ashfaqullah Khan etc.

The armed wing of the HRA was known as Hindustan Republican Army. Soldiers of the HR-Army were informally known as "Haramis"

The HRA essentially lasted from 1923 till 1936. Some parts of It still survive as part of the Republican Party of India - a sort of Communist party who had 3 MPs..

India Against Corruption brand is owned by Dr Sanyal - nephew (or maybe grand-nephew) of Sachindranath Sanyal.

On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 5:38 PM, ISHER KUMAR ARORA <aroraisherkumar@gmail.com> wrote:

WHAT IS H.R. ARMY?

On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 7:22 AM, bs azad <bhagatsingh.hrarmy@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Shri Roy

India Against Corruption registering as a political party is completely out of the question. All lackeys of her Grise Eminence proposing such unproductive courses of action have been firmly expelled from the movement. The IAC shall always be the "Garam Dal" of India's freedom movement.

Recalling again the immortal words of the White Paper,

The Indian people do not love their Foreign masters, they do not want them to be here. True independence can never be achieved through peaceful and constitutional means and when expediency will demand it, the people will unhesitatingly enter into a campaign of aggression, when the life of every official and individual who will be helping the foreign ruler in any way will be made intolerable. But even then the people will never forget that revolution is not the object, and they will try incessantly to organize a band of selfless and devoted workers who will devote their best energies towards the political and social emancipation of their country.
They will always remember that the making of nations requires the self-sacrifice of thousand of obscure men and women who care more for the idea of their country than for their own comfort or interest, their own lives or the lives of those whom they love.

On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 11:39 PM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Friend,

Your credo is archaic, needs modernization and a severe trimming. It should be clear now that there is no way in which IAC can be registered as a political party with this kind of manifesto.

The Motto of the HRA

Free speedy and fair justice to every person,

Equal and real opportunity to every person

NB:This is already promised in the Constitution (of India) as securing "Equality of status and of opportunity to all its citizens"

Objectives (as mentioned in the HRA White Paper)

# Freedom from foreign rulers or tyrants
* "Foreigners or tyrants have no right to rule over India and therefore they, their hired lackeys and collaborators must be denounced and driven out."

# Establishment and Preservation of the Federal Republic of India by organised and armed revolution.
* "IAC movement holds it is self-deception to believe that India's political liberty can be ensured only through peaceful and legitimate means with an unscrupulous enemy determined to break the peace at his own convenience.

# Direct Democracy
* "The IAC movement views all constitutional agitation in this country with contempt and ridicule."

# Secularism
"The IAC movement supports whatever rights and laws different communities may demand for themselves, provided they do not clash with the interests of other communities or the national interest and are extended to all citizens. Hearty and organic union in different communities must be conducted under a Common Civil Code"

# God
"In the spiritual domain the IAC movement aims at establishing that this world is real and the manifestation of the one individual soul, the supreme source of all power, all knowledge and all beauty."

WWW : http://indiaagainstcorruption.net.in
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Re: [IAC++] VOICE OF HRARMY

On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 5:38 PM, ISHER KUMAR ARORA <aroraisherkumar@gmail.com> wrote:

WHAT IS H.R. ARMY?

On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 7:22 AM, bs azad <bhagatsingh.hrarmy@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Shri Roy

India Against Corruption registering as a political party is completely out of the question. All lackeys of her Grise Eminence proposing such unproductive courses of action have been firmly expelled from the movement. The IAC shall always be the "Garam Dal" of India's freedom movement.

Recalling again the immortal words of the White Paper,

The Indian people do not love their Foreign masters, they do not want them to be here. True independence can never be achieved through peaceful and constitutional means and when expediency will demand it, the people will unhesitatingly enter into a campaign of aggression, when the life of every official and individual who will be helping the foreign ruler in any way will be made intolerable. But even then the people will never forget that revolution is not the object, and they will try incessantly to organize a band of selfless and devoted workers who will devote their best energies towards the political and social emancipation of their country.
They will always remember that the making of nations requires the self-sacrifice of thousand of obscure men and women who care more for the idea of their country than for their own comfort or interest, their own lives or the lives of those whom they love.

On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 11:39 PM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Friend,

Your credo is archaic, needs modernization and a severe trimming. It should be clear now that there is no way in which IAC can be registered as a political party with this kind of manifesto.

The Motto of the HRA

Free speedy and fair justice to every person,

Equal and real opportunity to every person

NB:This is already promised in the Constitution (of India) as securing "Equality of status and of opportunity to all its citizens"

Objectives (as mentioned in the HRA White Paper)

# Freedom from foreign rulers or tyrants
* "Foreigners or tyrants have no right to rule over India and therefore they, their hired lackeys and collaborators must be denounced and driven out."

# Establishment and Preservation of the Federal Republic of India by organised and armed revolution.
* "IAC movement holds it is self-deception to believe that India's political liberty can be ensured only through peaceful and legitimate means with an unscrupulous enemy determined to break the peace at his own convenience.

# Direct Democracy
* "The IAC movement views all constitutional agitation in this country with contempt and ridicule."

# Secularism
"The IAC movement supports whatever rights and laws different communities may demand for themselves, provided they do not clash with the interests of other communities or the national interest and are extended to all citizens. Hearty and organic union in different communities must be conducted under a Common Civil Code"

# God
"In the spiritual domain the IAC movement aims at establishing that this world is real and the manifestation of the one individual soul, the supreme source of all power, all knowledge and all beauty."

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Re: [IAC++] [HumJanenge] Plan to Prevent Corruption & other Democratic Evils

I think the points raised by Prof PVS Rao have been completely missed. There are numerous good ideas on what can be done to improve the democratic process, and many of these have been aired on these columns. I am sure there are a lot more. The real problem is not on finding out what can be done but how any of these ideas can be initiated. Without disrupting the democratic process, none of these ideas can be initiated by anybody who is is not a party to the process, viz., members of the legislative bodies, be it at the state or national level. And these honourable members are not likely to take any of these suggestions and follow up on them seriously as all these measures go against the grain of their interests in wanting hold on to the powers vested in these positions and the opportunities that lie in the exercise of these powers

What we need to do is evolve the methodologies that would provide us the lever to at least get a toehold in getting our voices heard and acted upon. I do not have the magic wand to open this access. However, I am sure that an open discussion on these lines can throw up hundreds of apparently stupid and impractical ideas but among these there can be one brilliant idea that can indeed work to get the job done

We have to first get to where our thoughts and ideas can constructively work rather than just keep airing what needs to be done when we get there

Prof Rao had even mentioned he has a methodology for making it work, but probably feels the the present mood is not appropriate for him to reveal it now. May be we can create the conducive platform where these ideas can be discussed ?

Regards & best wishes and without offense to any who have participated in these discussions

Nandhu

Re: [IAC++] VOICE OF HRARMY

WHAT IS H.R. ARMY?

On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 7:22 AM, bs azad <bhagatsingh.hrarmy@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Shri Roy

India Against Corruption registering as a political party is completely out of the question. All lackeys of her Grise Eminence proposing such unproductive courses of action have been firmly expelled from the movement. The IAC shall always be the "Garam Dal" of India's freedom movement.

Recalling again the immortal words of the White Paper,

The Indian people do not love their Foreign masters, they do not want them to be here. True independence can never be achieved through peaceful and constitutional means and when expediency will demand it, the people will unhesitatingly enter into a campaign of aggression, when the life of every official and individual who will be helping the foreign ruler in any way will be made intolerable. But even then the people will never forget that revolution is not the object, and they will try incessantly to organize a band of selfless and devoted workers who will devote their best energies towards the political and social emancipation of their country.
They will always remember that the making of nations requires the self-sacrifice of thousand of obscure men and women who care more for the idea of their country than for their own comfort or interest, their own lives or the lives of those whom they love.

On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 11:39 PM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Friend,

Your credo is archaic, needs modernization and a severe trimming. It should be clear now that there is no way in which IAC can be registered as a political party with this kind of manifesto.

The Motto of the HRA

Free speedy and fair justice to every person,

Equal and real opportunity to every person

NB:This is already promised in the Constitution (of India) as securing "Equality of status and of opportunity to all its citizens"

Objectives (as mentioned in the HRA White Paper)

# Freedom from foreign rulers or tyrants
* "Foreigners or tyrants have no right to rule over India and therefore they, their hired lackeys and collaborators must be denounced and driven out."

# Establishment and Preservation of the Federal Republic of India by organised and armed revolution.
* "IAC movement holds it is self-deception to believe that India's political liberty can be ensured only through peaceful and legitimate means with an unscrupulous enemy determined to break the peace at his own convenience.

# Direct Democracy
* "The IAC movement views all constitutional agitation in this country with contempt and ridicule."

# Secularism
"The IAC movement supports whatever rights and laws different communities may demand for themselves, provided they do not clash with the interests of other communities or the national interest and are extended to all citizens. Hearty and organic union in different communities must be conducted under a Common Civil Code"

# God
"In the spiritual domain the IAC movement aims at establishing that this world is real and the manifestation of the one individual soul, the supreme source of all power, all knowledge and all beauty."

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Re: [IAC++] [HumJanenge] Plan to Prevent Corruption & other Democratic Evils

Thanks Mr Sarbajit for the reply to Mr Bojji.
Now I am Worried.
I am Cryptic and Brief.
Explicit as a productivity Engineer. Bit critic as a change agent.
May not add up to yoir expectation of min 100 words.
I hope all will bear with me.
Best regards to all
Ratanlal Purohit
Consumer Activist.

On 10-Dec-2012 4:49 PM, "Sarbajit Roy" <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Mr Bojji

Everyone on this list can post/reply.

As a matter of fact your previous email had already been circulated to
this list as can be verified from.
https://lists.riseup.net/www/arc/iac/2012-12/msg00179.html

This list has over 13,000 members. If all of them exercised their
rights repeatedly or simultaneously this list would collapse. That is
why we have moderators here, to ensue that only "good" messages get
through to ensure that our subscribers are not over-burdened.

If your message is a) well reasoned b) on topic c) conforms to the
list rules and normal netiquette d) and contains at least 100 words it
should get through.

This is not a Free-for-all list. It is a Moderated (and actually very
heavily moderated) list. You have to come up to IAC's standards - IAC
shall not come down to yours. As a Fellow of the Institution, I'm sure
you will concur that standards cannot be diluted.

Sarbajit

On 12/10/12, Rajaram Bojji <rajaram.bojji@gmail.com> wrote:
> If I am not authorised to reply please stop sending these mails to me.
>
> Rajaram Bojji FIE., FNAE
> +91 9885700007
> On Dec 10, 2012 1:57 PM, "pavan nair" <pavannair1@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I agree with Professor Rao. Here is one suggestion. Term limits. Say not
>> more than two tenures for the Rajya Sabha and three for the Lok Sabha. Of
>> course this is open to discussion and argument. This will ensure a
>> turnover
>> of politicians and more people getting a chance to participate. Similarly
>> all other official positions as chairman of bodies to be restricted to
>> two
>> tenures. Also fix retirement ages to say 75 years? Col Pavan Nair
>>

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Re: [IAC++] [HumJanenge] Plan to Prevent Corruption & other Democratic Evils

Dear Mr Bojji

Everyone on this list can post/reply.

As a matter of fact your previous email had already been circulated to
this list as can be verified from.
https://lists.riseup.net/www/arc/iac/2012-12/msg00179.html

This list has over 13,000 members. If all of them exercised their
rights repeatedly or simultaneously this list would collapse. That is
why we have moderators here, to ensue that only "good" messages get
through to ensure that our subscribers are not over-burdened.

If your message is a) well reasoned b) on topic c) conforms to the
list rules and normal netiquette d) and contains at least 100 words it
should get through.

This is not a Free-for-all list. It is a Moderated (and actually very
heavily moderated) list. You have to come up to IAC's standards - IAC
shall not come down to yours. As a Fellow of the Institution, I'm sure
you will concur that standards cannot be diluted.

Sarbajit

On 12/10/12, Rajaram Bojji <rajaram.bojji@gmail.com> wrote:
> If I am not authorised to reply please stop sending these mails to me.
>
> Rajaram Bojji FIE., FNAE
> +91 9885700007
> On Dec 10, 2012 1:57 PM, "pavan nair" <pavannair1@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I agree with Professor Rao. Here is one suggestion. Term limits. Say not
>> more than two tenures for the Rajya Sabha and three for the Lok Sabha. Of
>> course this is open to discussion and argument. This will ensure a
>> turnover
>> of politicians and more people getting a chance to participate. Similarly
>> all other official positions as chairman of bodies to be restricted to
>> two
>> tenures. Also fix retirement ages to say 75 years? Col Pavan Nair
>>

Re: [IAC++] [HumJanenge] Plan to Prevent Corruption & other Democratic Evils

If I am not authorised to reply please stop sending these mails to me.

Rajaram Bojji FIE., FNAE
+91 9885700007

On Dec 10, 2012 1:57 PM, "pavan nair" <pavannair1@gmail.com> wrote:

I agree with Professor Rao. Here is one suggestion. Term limits. Say not more than two tenures for the Rajya Sabha and three for the Lok Sabha. Of course this is open to discussion and argument. This will ensure a turnover of politicians and more people getting a chance to participate. Similarly all other official positions as chairman of bodies to be restricted to two tenures. Also fix retirement ages to say 75 years? Col Pavan Nair

On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 10:00 AM, Dr. PVS Rao <dr.pvsrao@gmail.com> wrote:
It is one thing to do wishful and positive thinking, but rather than enlarging and embellishing the very nice wish list, will some one suggest a scenario whereby such a plan can be implemented? How will the citizens make this happen? This is not even belling the cat, it is like catch the cat, tie it up and put it in a cage.

This is like saying, let there be no sorrow, no illness, no evil let every one be honest, selfless and nice.

For a change, let us be realistic. Let us spend time thinking of something practical, instead of making plans about floating in the clouds!

Professor P.V.S. Rao
+91 9225518888

On 10 December 2012 07:10, Dr.Thanumoorthy V <radha52@hotmail.com> wrote:

Also Bring Retirement age for Politicians
Bring litrate only voting

===========================================================
Dr.V.THANUMOORTHY Ph.D. (Tech)

E-Mail: radha52@hotmail.com

===========================================================

Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 16:58:54 +0530
Subject: [HumJanenge] Plan to Prevent Corruption & other Democratic Evils
From: navinpandya1954@gmail.com
To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com; iac@lists.riseup.net

Dear All,

Namaste!

My Plan to Prevent Corruption & all other Democratic Evils:

1. Replace bogus Representation of Peoples Act, 1950-51 with new JanPratinidhi Act enacted with public suggestions.
2. Introduce Voters Education & Protection.
3. Scrap UPSC/State PSCs & create more institutions to qualify Public Servants with Public Spirit.
4. Reserve Rajya Sabha entirely for Civil Society to balance Politics Vs Civil Society.
5. Create Regulator for Political Parties like Regulators for other organisations.
6. Enact excellent Corporate Laws purely in national/public interest.
7. Strengthening Right to Information Act, 2005 for excellent public accountability & transparency.

8. Enacting & Enforcing Excellent Citizens Charter for Excellent Public Service.

9. Reviewing & Scrapping present laws unsuitable to Democracy.

10. Holding Constitutional Heads, ie, President & Governors of States responsible for better Governance.

Are citizens ready and willing to work for this plan?
Best regards,

Navin Pandya
09322523011

--
"CORRUPT AND UNACCOUNTABLE PUBLIC SERVANTS ARE THE GREATEST ENEMIES OF THE SOCIETY."

WWW : http://indiaagainstcorruption.net.in
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Re: [IAC++] [HumJanenge] Plan to Prevent Corruption & other Democratic Evils

I agree with Professor Rao. Here is one suggestion. Term limits. Say not more than two tenures for the Rajya Sabha and three for the Lok Sabha. Of course this is open to discussion and argument. This will ensure a turnover of politicians and more people getting a chance to participate. Similarly all other official positions as chairman of bodies to be restricted to two tenures. Also fix retirement ages to say 75 years? Col Pavan Nair

On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 10:00 AM, Dr. PVS Rao <dr.pvsrao@gmail.com> wrote:

It is one thing to do wishful and positive thinking, but rather than enlarging and embellishing the very nice wish list, will some one suggest a scenario whereby such a plan can be implemented? How will the citizens make this happen? This is not even belling the cat, it is like catch the cat, tie it up and put it in a cage.

This is like saying, let there be no sorrow, no illness, no evil let every one be honest, selfless and nice.

For a change, let us be realistic. Let us spend time thinking of something practical, instead of making plans about floating in the clouds!

Professor P.V.S. Rao
+91 9225518888

On 10 December 2012 07:10, Dr.Thanumoorthy V <radha52@hotmail.com> wrote:

Also Bring Retirement age for Politicians
Bring litrate only voting

===========================================================
Dr.V.THANUMOORTHY Ph.D. (Tech)

E-Mail: radha52@hotmail.com

===========================================================

Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 16:58:54 +0530
Subject: [HumJanenge] Plan to Prevent Corruption & other Democratic Evils
From: navinpandya1954@gmail.com
To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com; iac@lists.riseup.net

Dear All,

Namaste!

My Plan to Prevent Corruption & all other Democratic Evils:

1. Replace bogus Representation of Peoples Act, 1950-51 with new JanPratinidhi Act enacted with public suggestions.
2. Introduce Voters Education & Protection.
3. Scrap UPSC/State PSCs & create more institutions to qualify Public Servants with Public Spirit.
4. Reserve Rajya Sabha entirely for Civil Society to balance Politics Vs Civil Society.
5. Create Regulator for Political Parties like Regulators for other organisations.
6. Enact excellent Corporate Laws purely in national/public interest.
7. Strengthening Right to Information Act, 2005 for excellent public accountability & transparency.

8. Enacting & Enforcing Excellent Citizens Charter for Excellent Public Service.

9. Reviewing & Scrapping present laws unsuitable to Democracy.

10. Holding Constitutional Heads, ie, President & Governors of States responsible for better Governance.

Are citizens ready and willing to work for this plan?
Best regards,

Navin Pandya
09322523011

--
"CORRUPT AND UNACCOUNTABLE PUBLIC SERVANTS ARE THE GREATEST ENEMIES OF THE SOCIETY."

WWW : http://indiaagainstcorruption.net.in
Post: iac@lists.riseup.net
Quit: iac-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net
Help: http://help.riseup.net/lists/

--

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Re: [IAC++] [HumJanenge] Plan to Prevent Corruption & other Democratic Evils

True. All democratic nations should have a fundamental norm to deny secret interpretation of public policy as is being done now. The full proceedings should be scanned and web posted along with any government order issued. That will remove the attraction of corrupt to power.

Rajaram Bojji FIE., FNAE
+91 9885700007

On Dec 10, 2012 12:41 PM, "Nandhu MJS" <nandhu.mjs@gmail.com> wrote:

I fully endorse and echo the sentiments expressed by Prof Rao. I am sure a lot of people would echo similar sentiments of wanting to "lock up the cat and throw away the key". There has to be a way and it has to be found before the way finds itself as it generally has always happened sooner or later involving considerable hardship and bloodshed. I am sure some discussion on these lines would throw light on the actions that can be taken

Nandhu

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Re: [IAC++] [HumJanenge] Plan to Prevent Corruption & other Democratic Evils

I fully endorse and echo the sentiments expressed by Prof Rao. I am sure a lot of people would echo similar sentiments of wanting to "lock up the cat and throw away the key". There has to be a way and it has to be found before the way finds itself as it generally has always happened sooner or later involving considerable hardship and bloodshed. I am sure some discussion on these lines would throw light on the actions that can be taken

Nandhu

Re: [IAC] [IAC++] [IESM_Group:478] NEGLECT OF ARMED FORCES

Dear Col Kishore

I'm not a "Dr", just a plain "Engineer".

Please understand that we cannot make assumptions about the quality of suggestions (or suggestors) on this list. Its a little too early for that (and we are only at 25% of our projected membership).

What can be said is that the IAC was a large and heterogeneous movement till fairly recently. The "G-o-C" of that IAC was a sepoy who deserted his post. Through fortituous circumstances, most of those people and the lumpen masses they brought with them have left to form a political party - more power to their elbow we say.

For the moment, this IAC is merely building up a critical mass of like thinking intelligent people who are united in their diversity. As you can visualise it is not easy to get intellectuals to work together. There is also a considerable amount of "un-tuning" that has to be done so that we can jointly converge on a) our common problems b) problems where mutual cooperation can take place.

Finally, our timing should not be determined by elections or governments. Change/revolution is a continuous process and we must wait for the right night, moon, winds and tides.

Warmly

Sarbajit

On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 11:07 AM, tadepalli triambakakishore <ltcolttkishore@gmail.com> wrote:

DearDrSarbajitRoy,
Thank you for the reply.You will have to guard the movement from getting trivialized by well meaning advise ,but,tending from bizarre to quixotic
As you are aware delay causes corruption be they ideas or actions ,can you formulate a course of action quickly ,toss it around briefly,fine tune to the extent possible and bash on regardless.

Brgds.
LtColTTK,engineers

Re: [IAC++] [IESM_Group:478] NEGLECT OF ARMED FORCES

On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 11:07 AM, tadepalli triambakakishore <ltcolttkishore@gmail.com> wrote:

DearDrSarbajitRoy,
Thank you for the reply.You will have to guard the movement from getting trivialized by well meaning advise ,but,tending from bizarre to quixotic
As you are aware delay causes corruption be they ideas or actions ,can you formulate a course of action quickly ,toss it around briefly,fine tune to the extent possible and bash on regardless.

Brgds.
LtColTTK,engineers

Re: [IAC++] NEGLECT OF ARMED FORCES

Dear Sir,

Please remember that police training does not cater to the aspect of "fire fights" and "bullets being fired in anger against them". Analyse how larger than life "encounter specialists" become specialists. You must have seen the movie"Wednesday"

How many have really been in an encounter with superior weapons being fired at them. Ask the Jawans who face these situations regularly in the Valley and till recently in the NE. Do you recall what happened at Lokhandwala complex a decade ago. The policeman had not seen a range ever since he left the training school.

What we saw at TAJ & TRIDENT involved specialised operations which should have been handled by specialist like the NSG which they ultimately did.

On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 8:40 AM, Navnith Krishnan <navkris@hotmail.com> wrote:

MRCI,

The moot reason for Kampte and his colleagues went in a jeep is because thery never understood the gravity of the situation.At this senior level no supirior will ordeer them to go like that.They took every thing so lightly,went to the site as if going for a picnic and paid the price with their lives.

navnith

From: events@southasianoutlook.com
To: sroy.mb@gmail.com
CC: iac@lists.riseup.net
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 14:17:17 -0500

Subject: Re: [IAC++] NEGLECT OF ARMED FORCES

Hi Sarbjit:

Agree with the real question except the ***** preceding the alphabet – which does not behove any organisation or individuals.

Just a thought.

J Raman

GlobalomMedia.com

SouthAsianOutlook.com

IndoCanadaOutlook.com

From: Sarbajit Roy

Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 1:35 PM

To: iac

Subject: Re: [IAC++] NEGLECT OF ARMED FORCES

Vinita Deshmukh's version
http://news.rediff.com/special/2009/nov/25/anniversary-26-11-vinita-kamte-unravels-mystery-about-her-husbands-death.htm

and there's the other version
http://www.countercurrents.org/hansa130510.htm

But the real question

IF Sentries are used as servants
IF Police are used as sentries
IF ATS and NSG are used as police
IF Army is used as ats/nsg
THEN who the f**** is guarding our borders ?

needs to be answered first !

On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 11:34 PM, MRCI - Ramesh Patil <mrciin@yahoo.co.in> wrote:

The most pertinent Q "WHY did TOP cops were travelling in 1 Jeep "Does SOP/Police Manual permit such adventure?mr Kamte was no where connected directly Neither he was Jt CP of Law and Order nor Chief of ATC-Who instructed him to rush from Res to site where Terrorists were positioned?Simple common sense and practice folloed in Corporate world " No 2/3 Directors of co.are allowed to travel together in the same flight" So why this lapse and who is responsible?

flight One must read the book by Vinita deshmukh

MRCI

From: Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com>
To: iac@lists.riseup.net
Sent: Sunday, 9 December 2012 8:50 PM

Subject: Re: [IAC++] NEGLECT OF ARMED FORCES

Well I wouldn't equate use of the Army in J&K with Operation BlueStar.
The 2 situations are quite different.

What I would point to is the following:-

IF Sentries are used as servants
IF Police are used as sentries
IF ATS and NSG are used as police
IF Army is used as ats/nsg

THEN who the f**** is guarding our borders ?

Will somebody in Govt. also answer the basic questions (before Ajay Dixit does)

1) How did Kasab &co escape in the ATS vehicle ?
2) Why did NSG not sanitise the area outside Taj Hotel and clear out Barkha Dutt &Co ?
3) Why did Karkare appear distinctly nervous on TV
when he was putting on his flak jacket ?
4) How high do the moles in Govt go ?

Sarbajit
National Convenor IAC

On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 8:05 PM, Vidyut Kale <wide.aware@gmail.com> wrote:

+500%

And Kashmir is ongoing too. Not like the Army had a choice, but what should have been a use of force to quell militancy and create space for a political initiative seems to have taken the easy path of using the forces to keep Kashmir in a kind of limbo.

So if is a bizarrely disconnected situation. Government initiatives don't translate into good will in the absense of vision and resentment of an overwhelmingly powerful permanent presence telling them a story of mistrust. The Army is not police. Period. You can't simply park the Army there and forget it.

Surrounded by civilians who could also be enemies, the stress is extremely high and results in angry brutality against civilians and suicides among soldiers as well as angry civilians, some of whom are so fixated on getting rid of this imposition and getting rid of India, that they will not allow themselves or others to be happy till that is achieved.

The AFSPA further complicates things. In reality, it isn't so much the AFSPA as the impunity. Desperate to keep frustrated soldiers from rebellion, the government and Army turn a blind eye to many mistakes - at the cost of locals.

It gives rise to a whole bunch of do-gooders who are less about solutions and more about wanting "fashionably contrary" things to happen.

Not to mention the phenomenal toll - financial, social and psychological where the polarized politics itself adds to the perception of Kashmir being separate.

When the dust settles, it will be the Army blamed for the result - whatever it is - by whichever side. *If* it settles, or there will only be entire generations lost to a limbo born in political cowardice.

Vidyut

On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 6:12 PM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:

One of the biggest mistakes the Army
made was participating in Operation Bluestar. It was a policing
problem - it should have been sorted out by the MHA.

--
Vidyut Kale

aamjanata.com

Twitter: @Vidyut

Diaspora: vidyut@ilikefreedom

Facebook: http://facenook.com/theVidyut

Phone: Allergic

Telephone: Forget it.

Mobile phone: Forgot

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The INFANTEER
CONSERVE WATER
USE BIODEGRADABLE PACKING MATERIAL

[IAC++] Fwd: [IESM_Group:478] NEGLECT OF ARMED FORCES

DearDrSarbajitRoy,

Thank you for the reply.You will have to guard the movement from getting trivialized by well meaning advise ,but,tending from bizarre to quixotic
As you are aware delay causes corruption be they ideas or actions ,can you formulate a course of action quickly ,toss it around briefly,fine tune to the extent possible and bash on regardless.

Brgds.

LtColTTK,engineers
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Sarbajit Roy
Date: Sunday, December 9, 2012
Subject: [IESM_Group:478] NEGLECT OF ARMED FORCES
To: iac@lists.riseup.net

Dear Col Kishore

Let me assure you in my personal capacity that the nation
will not tolerate neglect of its armed forces.
It is the armed forces (and only the armed forces) which holds the
Indian nation together.

The IESM movement has only been playing for its own selfish
ends - ie pensions and benefits. As a result it is getting
fairly alienated from serving officers (who dont take a long term view
of these things) The IESM movement has also been well infiltrated
by political and communal elements - thereby weakening the movement.

The IESM should realise only language the Govt understands is one
of aggression and threats. One of the biggest mistakes the Army
made was participating in Operation Bluestar. It was a policing
problem - it should have been sorted out by the MHA.

Sarbajit

On 12/9/12, tadepalli triambakakishore <ltcolttkishore@gmail.com> wrote:
> DearAll,
> A nation that neglects its soldiers surely will forefeit it's right and
> ability to exist as has been conclusively proved in the recent ,past,
> ancient history. Soldiers can and will share poverty of the nation but not
> stupidity of the MOD babus most of whom seem to be hell bent (in
> explicably) to be anti Defence services. On the other hand CPOs( ie central
> police orgs viz police community under central and state control ) are
> reasonably well looked after by babus of the same IAS etc in the MHA. The
> only explanation I can offer is that unlike police men who are clued up
> about the babus character The Defense services men be they serving or
> ESM are a simple lot and can be looted/ misused/ravaged at will by
> babus(some times aided and abetted by Judaea of armed forces).
> Do please consider and ponder to further natural justice.
> Regards.
> LtCol Veteran TTKishore,Engineers,IA
>

--
LTCOL(retd) T T KISHORE
FLAT NO-134, SECTOR-A,
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